This is about the lamest attempt yet to control what people say on the forum at Bonanza.
I thought we were adults and knew how to communicate our thoughts, or at least I am and do ... apparently not
Earlier someone started this thread
http://www.bonanza.com/forums/1/topics/137274 it's about the Rushes, no one knows when they are going to start. We were told mid Oct but nothing happened. Meanwhile people are saying there has been one or one is scheduled, no body really knows what is going on and no announcements from management.
I find it all a tad funny... and somewhat typical of things lately
so I made a post that said “I just love communication around here”
so then I get this Bmail from Mark
*************************************
“I just love communication around here”
Hey Crystal,
I wanted to let you know that we have removed your forum post (copied above). We removed it because it is kinda dreary and will only serve to spread dreariness in the community. Maybe a better way to make your point in the future is something like this;
“I have not heard of that yet, wondering of they are going to make an announcement soon” or something like that.
Thanks,
Mark
Bonanza
**************************************
WTH
Just what is his definition of dreary.... anything that isn't "I love this place" I guess and these days I find those words a tad dreary
So, now we have gone from DMVing, deleting, locking threads, taking them out of the main stream, to deleting to actually suggesting how you should say things.
Can't say they do not go above and beyond, just not with the things they should.
Had a bit of conversation with him over this, didn't say what was on my mind :) but I'm guessing that the next time I am dreary and considering this blog I will get another vacation.
Someone started an however many hours to Christmas thread... I wanted to post my usual "bah humbug" or "bah humpug" that everyone expects from me but good golly miss molly lets not be funny, it might be dreary humor.
So, how can he be surprised that people are afraid to post to the forum. We will all soon be down to "good morning, hot here, roast beef for dinner, rah rah".
Sorry your post got deleted, Pugs. I see nothing wrong with what you said. I mean, I'm sure it's what several of us are thinking and I see nothing dreary in at all. What's dreary is all the "not knowing" what's going to happen and when.
ReplyDeleteWell.. in my view, I agree with Pugs.
ReplyDeleteI thought the forums were a medium created especially for free discussion by sellers regarding successes, trials, calls for help, concerns, praise and perils in a professional manner.
To suggest language in place of one's own chosen words is taking monitoring and control a tad far. Sounds like Bonz is following on the heels of a socialist/communist type of rule..
No thanks...if that's the way things will be, I'll pack my things and go elsewhere.
P.S. Note to self...get on the stick building your own site faster.....
Looks like Mark saved more than 300,000 users a bad case of dreariness. I wonder if Hoss would have handled it that way or said Man Up Little Joe afore I get Adam to slap da bejezzus out of you.
ReplyDeleteYou gotta love when when one makes the decisions for 300K Plus. Kinda like the 545 in congress doing whats right for 300 Million Americans.
IMO some of the post on the "how's your weather" thread are dreary
ReplyDeleteactually our weather is a bit dreary right now but I dare not post to that thread .. then I'd get a vacation for posting my weather conditions
Spew alert!! I almost spit my drink all over the place.
ReplyDeleteThis is becoming an insane problem, and to take a post down is bad enough, it is their site ... so if they want to censor, fine, but to TELL you what to say is crossing the line to yes, Beauty, Socialism/Marxism/Communism.
My advise, avoid the posting in forums unless you are doing a rah rah dance for them. All other communications can be done off site, like a more public forum like Facebook maybe?? PSU ?? Do they really want that??
WAKE UP Bonanza! .. Ya'll are starting a campfire for the Kumbaya singers that is going to burn down the ranch.
Oh my...I really agree with you Pugs and others above in that trying to control the way people "phrase" their words by Deleting & Censoring instead of Communicating in a mutally respectful way such as "suggesting a new title", only Backfires with (hopefully) Unintended Consequences.
ReplyDeleteOne of the lessons I think Bonz might learn from the complete and utter failure of this Congress in the US is that when you treat adults like stupid children and take away their rights, you destroy the respect and loyalty of those people. Hence, you break up very important cohesiveness.
eg: re: Nancy Pelosi on the healthcare bill "We have to pass it to know what's in it"
Or telling us we are just too stupid to see that socialism/marxist healthcare will "be Good for us"
So, what to do... ?
I guess the best thing is to just proceed with extreme caution and let Bonz see it's errors and perhaps move to correct them...hopefully.
I'm sorry Pugs, I didn't even see that post. You know there are plenty of us agree.
One's website or not, it's just not right to delete a comment unless it's obscene or inappropriate in some way.
ReplyDeleteThis is my house .. does that mean it's okay for me to tell my visitors what they can or cannot talk about .. no and even less my customers !
What would one think if I kicked one out because I didn't like a comment they made. What would people think of me?
This is just driving people away, many that I know about.
as they say .. a good story is no good without any negative happening in it. Same thing for a forum.
Life would be pretty boring without the problems.
Also, Bonanza will just seem like a web site that's hiding it's problems which will only create distrust.
I never trust a site if there are only positive comments, because we all know that's impossible.
PS - it took me over an hour to get my post to go through, so Blogger does have some issues which the blog owner has no control over. ;-)
ReplyDeleteWell, now my post is gone again.
ReplyDeleteI give up.
Just know this has been going on for a long time and I believe it is wrong.
so many people have problems posting, even I couldn't earlier :(
ReplyDeletemy posting disappeared too :( damn!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteI am sorry this happened to you pugs. It seems that lately to many have had this happen to them.
ReplyDeleteI am so sorry for Bonanza too..they are making enemies before they are out of diapers..thats what the forums should be for conversating..I agree with Pugs and I am so surprised at the people that have been suspended or warned and at the actual number of booths that have left..I can name about 10 off the top of my head that used to always be in the forums ..playing games..hosting games etc and they are gone now...How can we mulitply when people are leaving ...and they are leaving with good reason..the boyz are "fixing " things without letting us know ahead of time..or maybe asking what our opinions are...what kind of relationship can survive antics such as this...
ReplyDeleteSounds like communism to me. Now we have to be told what to say?.....LMAO
ReplyDeleteI just love communication around here.... I just HAD to say that, LOL!
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHey all,
ReplyDeleteDid you know that there are more than 3000 posts made every day at Bonanza? On average, we disemvowel less than one post per day, which, percentage-wise, works out that about 99.99% of posts are not censored in any way, shape, or form. We don't take the credit for this -- it is the positive/constructive attitude of our community that makes it possible for us to have such a high rate of unmoderated posts. But, to keep this rate as high as it is, sometimes we need to be proactive in identifying posts that could drive the conversation in the wrong direction.
In this particular instance, we thought it could be helpful to offer a specific idea of how pugs' sentiment could be expressed in a way that would be more constructive. Does pugs have to say what we suggest? Of course not. She is entitled to express her opinion however she sees fit. But we had hoped that we could start a conversation with pugs by offering different ways on how to express the same idea without the connotations that would steer the topic toward being non-constructive.
In the future, we will probably refrain from offering specific suggestions about how to better phrase posts in order to avoid DMVs. But the reason we tried in the first place was because it seemed like a reasonable way to start a positive conversation. We hope that this doesn't make us communists, because that would be really awkward to try to explain to my parents.
Thanks for Bonanzlin'.
Bill Harding
CEO
Bonanza
Some are taking these forum posts wayyyyy to seriously and literally. Good grief, get a sense of humor or at least allow other to have one.
ReplyDeleteA site cannot base their forum on how they might be viewed by the newbs or the outside world. Most people are capable of reading and forming their own opinions and should be allowed to do so.
The fact is there is a huge world out there that survives every single day in less than perfect circumstances and most of us manage to live through it, work it out, forgive or forget, and get over it without so much guidance/interference.
It is not wise to try to maintain such tight control over others. JMHO, though I realize some view it as extremely negative.
BTW, want to add to that and suggest that if there were a little more genuine communication from You (Bill) and/or other support there might not be so much frustration in your forum. IMO much of this stems from a lack of communication.
ReplyDeleteNot promoting another site here, but you might want to take a look at the forums on ArtFire. They seem to have a system that works very well for all involved. That is an honest suggestion with nothing bad at all intended.
Bill, one problem there as that Marks "suggestion" didn't communicate what I was trying to say and didn't have my "sentiment"
ReplyDeletewhat I said was off the cuff and meant no more of no less
what I said was not dreary or dramatic
yes, you have a ton of posts every day... and the fast majority these days are "no meat" post
if anyone discusses anything of importance to us about the site or issues it's removed or put where people can not see it
It is obvious to many that certain people over the past few months have been "targeted" to be shut up
"She is entitled to express her opinion however she sees fit"
that is not quite true, not for any of us. If someone expresses something in a very mean way or swears or is totally inappropriate, all of us would agree that should not be allowed. However, these days we can not express our opinions however we see fit unless it "follows the party line"
Sorry Bill but you are blowing smoke and I don't think many of us are buying it.
The only way any of us can express ourselves as we see fit is to do so on blogs, FB etc. Now, this is not the best thing for anyone and we all know that. But when adults are not respected and treated as children on a forum and not allowed to speak then they find other ways. What would be better, to give a bit more freedom and have honest opinions on the forum or have it on the net. The problem with the net is that when people feel they have to do that , like myself and many others, the situation is then worse. That is just the nature of things unfortunately. My comment was not bad, dreary or dramatic and had it been left and taken as intended no one would have thought a thing of it. However, I didn't appreciate my simple statement being taken so wrong that it needed removing and the following correspondence between myself and Mark was such that I do not feel comfortable posting to the forum anymore. I am sure this is the intent as it has been with other. So, I feel the need to discuss this and here we are.
Mark can not understand why people are afraid to post to the forum anymore. I understand it quite well.
In his recent thread about the forum he said we didn't have to be cheery all the time... well so, what is between cheery and dreary.. cause we can't be dreary and need to stop before we get that far. But, doesn't matter since it's a subjective view of what someone says and Mark if way more critical of some peoples postings than others.
It's your forum and site Bill, you can naturally do as you choose. It only has to be fair in your eyes. Non of us need the forum to sell, so if all you want is people posting how wonderful everything is and what they are having for dinner, good luck with that.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteForgot to mention
ReplyDeleteyour "social" site, is less social these days and more "socialist"
I think Avocado makes a very salient point: that it's easy to take this a bit too seriously. We don't have a complicated agenda, and we don't have time to conspire. What we ask is simply that, if people want to engage with each other on our forums, that they do so in a positive or constructive way. Of course we're going to disagree, but we believe there is a constructive and non-constructive way to do that.
ReplyDeleteWe willfully acknowledge that we are not the only, and certainly not best, forum in which to discuss any old topic. We are going to work to continue to provide a positive environment in which people feel welcome, and free from the unchecked negativity that seems to creep into much of the rest of the Internets. I believe that as long as we keep it our goal to remain honest and consistent, we'll eventually find a group of people who share that goal with us, and the people that stayed and the people that left will both be better off for it. That ain't so bad, right?
Bill
The forum seems to be breeding negativity with your way of controlling it.
ReplyDelete>>>What we ask is simply that, if people want to engage with each other on our forums, that they do so in a positive or constructive way. <<<
sometimes what is constructive is critical, and that is not considered my you as positive apparently. Not everything is positive in the world or on the site and to be constructive and grow you sometimes have to be critical, or "negative" or point out such things"
"Of course we're going to disagree, but we believe there is a constructive and non-constructive way to do that."
Considering the wide variety of people, personalities and levels of education, understanding and communicative skills... I think you will have a long hard row to hoe. You many need to first give each member a full course in communication and diplomacy skills before they are allowed to post to the forum so they can avoid getting into trouble.
n the future, we will probably refrain from offering specific suggestions about how to better phrase posts in order to avoid DMVs. But the reason we tried in the first place was because it seemed like a reasonable way to start a positive conversation. We hope that this doesn't make us communists, because that would be really awkward to try to explain to my parents.
ReplyDeleteThanks for Bonanzlin'.
Bill Harding
CEO
Bonanza
as I see it,..yer not allowing yer parents to read this Bill. Shame on you. Don't forget this is a free country.
If your gonna have a forum let US express our oppions (within reason) that relates to the site and stop giving goofballs access to the Banned button. Whom ever banned me was way outta line compared to what you and Bill did on the bag forum on ebay.
Bill,
ReplyDelete>>>But the reason we tried in the first place was because it seemed like a reasonable way to start a positive conversation.<<<
now this is a good example
you viewed that as positive, where as I and apparently some others see it as negative
so, then it is reasonable to say that what you and others see as negative we are seeing as positive.
>>>we will probably refrain from offering specific suggestions about how to better phrase posts<<<
ReplyDeletewhy would you even attempt to tell adults, most old enough to be your parents, how to express themselves or "phrase posts"
I think we all do a pretty darn good job of it.. the only problem I see is that you do not often like the point we are expressing or we are expressing ourselves a little too well to suit you
I still don't get it Bill..Pugs comment was funny..plain and simple and very much the truth. There is way less communication now that you have more staff. Like today..instead of letting people burn out a bearing or two, having to put out fires, seeing the crap get plastered all over facebook wouldn't it just be EASIER on everyone if a short note were posted to the blog? Something like we are doing testing on such and such..it would keep people in the loop, less frustrated etc. Alex posting some 15 hours after the fact doesn't help..do it at the beginning please
ReplyDeleteand just have to point one more thing out...Bill you said "We hope that this doesn't make us communists, because that would be really awkward to try to explain to my parents". Now take a step back and look at that...are you not jesting like Pugs was??? Come on lol So it's ok for you to jest but not for the rest of us? Go ahead and say that on the board...YOU won't get deleted/dmv'd but rather your groupies will be in awe of your humor and drooling lol
ReplyDeleteOK .. Just have to pop in once again. (Bill, stop groaning LOL)
ReplyDeleteI, as I am sure everyone is, able to understand how and why Bill, Mark, etc would like to keep the forums a positive place. And I am sure everyone will agree there are times some posts need DMVing and yes, there is even other times the post should be completely removed. BUT that should be reserved for the inflammatory, vulgar, and over the top ones, not a simple statement or observation.
Forums can be helpful spots for sellers to find information, form friendships and solid business relationships and to simply relax ... the water-cooler of the internet. They can also be toxic spots if left unchecked. The trick is to maintain control without controlling the people.
It seems sometimes they are over the top zealous trying to keep the sun shining and the happy music playing. Again, it is their playground and if they want to remove the swingsets and give everyone feathers to play with so no one gets hurt they can.
But bear in mind Bill, Mark and the rest of staff :
There is a fine line between dedication and stupidity - dont cross it.
not to mention that it was assumed my comment was to support
ReplyDeleteit could have been to the posters before me since no one had the same view on the topic
just saying the boyz sure jumped in with a guilty conscience to a comment that was not dreary or dramatic and could have gone more than one way
and sofy you are so right, they boyz humor can be sarcastic or rude yet we are not even allowed to be funny, well, I'm not
like mark told me in one of the bmails to me "it depends who says it"
well garage sale time
have a nice day everyone, you too Bill and Mark
Wow, I am so dizzy!
ReplyDeletePugs, please make this post stop spinning! lol
:)